tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post6696646254597182869..comments2023-10-21T09:29:57.521-02:30Comments on of sugar-baited words: Get a grip! Margaret Wente says we're overreacting about the Dalhousie Dentistry studentsZaren Healey Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04518674362108341977noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post-76986495929880267072015-01-24T07:52:30.458-03:302015-01-24T07:52:30.458-03:30Becoming a personal statements for dental school c...Becoming a <a href="http://www.dentalschoolpersonalstatement.com/" rel="nofollow">personal statements for dental school</a> can surely be a big and one of the major decisions of your life. The job responsibilities can actually be both incredibly rewarding and challenging.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14270880879695597636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post-34530816247214898022015-01-08T20:54:49.306-03:302015-01-08T20:54:49.306-03:30I don't entirely disagree with any of what'...I don't entirely disagree with any of what's been said here. The comment I posted is clear about how I, too, condemn their words, isn't it? <br /><br />To clarify, I feel these individuals are the focus of intense scrutiny and rage right now, and I think that's a bit out of proportion to the deed. For instance, I don't think that Anonymous should out their identities (as reported by VICE here: http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/anonymous-threatens-to-out-members-of-misogynist-dalhousie-dental-student-facebook-group-274?preview&cb=1420562938%3Futm_source%3Dvicefbca ). Otherwise, I'm not trying to defend these people. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post-86297432057818428652015-01-08T11:42:22.552-03:302015-01-08T11:42:22.552-03:30Some issues with your position:
"I do feel th...Some issues with your position:<br />"I do feel the public, and maybe even the university and the profession, has reacted (is reacting) too harshly."<br />The students have been suspended - not even expelled. Harsher punishments have been dealt out for the heinous offense of academic misconduct. The profession is rightly concerned that a potential practitioner could conceive of assaulting his patients, as has happened, and continues to happen.<br /><br />"I mean, beyond expressing stupidity online, what crime has been committed here? How slippery is this slope? Are we approaching thought crimes or preventive arrest? There are all sorts of KKK and racial-supremacist forums online that no one seems to be up-in-arms about, and they straight up disseminate hate, as deliberate, to-be-put-into-practice doctrine."<br />Likely no crime. It is not slippery. No we are not. No one expects jail time, and few demand it. Academic sanctions, expulsion, or even a ban from medical practice are not criminal punishments. Why is it their right to practice dentistry? Why is their claim to that right stronger than the damage that would come to the profession, the rights of their peers (particularly women) to a safe academic environment, and the potential threat to their patients? Many people are denied entry to professional schools outright. There is no right to professional practice.<br /><br />"It`s entirely possible that none of the interlocutors were planning to act on anything that was said."<br />It's "possible" that they may not act on their beliefs/statements? Isn't it also possible that one of 13 men could act? Peer pressure-inspired misogyny is real. It is part of the problem. It is integral to rape culture. It must not be tolerated. These men should not be put in jail - few people should. They should not be criminally charged unless one of their targets felt genuinely threatened by their statements. But, they should not be allowed in the privileged and prestigious position to have their own patients or administer anesthesia. As I've already covered, how is that such a harsh punishment?<br /><br />"This story has garnered more public and media interest than some brutal gang rapes. Maybe the infamy they`ve garnered already is punishment enough for their lack of judgment when expressing themselves in what was supposedly a private conversation."<br />Whose fault is it that worse or more immediate crimes aren't covered? Surely that statement has no place in a discussion of the Dalhousie case. As for infamy, they are, as yet, unnamed. If they remain unnamed, even if they are expelled, this won't follow them into another career. But you may be close in that the fear they feel could the worst part of their "punishment." And it's still not as bad as what many women feel as a result of the views they hold!<br /><br />M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post-57935842065301218192015-01-07T17:29:15.076-03:302015-01-07T17:29:15.076-03:30Facebook is a public forum. Uttering threats is il...Facebook is a public forum. Uttering threats is illegal, and Facebook threats have been enough to put people in jail in the past. Free speech is free speech, and hate speech is hate speech (and as far as I know, protection of Klan rallies does not extend to most countries, including this one). This is not a thought crime - we haven't hit Orwellian levels yet. This was uttered in a public forum.<br />Maybe these young men still deserve a chance to live out their lives without being harassed. But after making threats of drugging and raping women, should any of them be left alone in a room with a woman under anesthesia? I wouldn't get in line to get a tooth pulled by any of them.Lacynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post-45339209496155661242015-01-07T13:34:54.976-03:302015-01-07T13:34:54.976-03:30Cheers! I'm interested in this case, too, but...Cheers! I'm interested in this case, too, but I guess my thoughts fall somewhere between Wente's and your own. <br /><br />I don't dispute the gross misogyny inherent to the "gentlemen's" online discussions, but I do feel the public, and maybe even the university and the profession, has reacted (is reacting) too harshly. I mean, beyond expressing stupidity online, what crime has been committed here? How slippery is this slope? Are we approaching thought crimes or preventive arrest? There are all sorts of KKK and racial-supremacist forums online that no one seems to be up-in-arms about, and they straight up disseminate hate, as deliberate, to-be-put-into-practice doctrine. As much as we hate their messages, our notions of freedom of speech have always been their fallback. The Klan can even get police protection for their hate parades. I don't like it, but they get to say their piece. <br /><br />I don't want to diminish the severity of what these "gentlemen" were saying online, but the point I'd like to make requires as much (my apologies for this tactic; whether you believe it or not, I'm not a misogynist). Basically, I think people say some stupid things - what was said in their forum was hurtful, disrespectful, and very misogynistic - but I don`t think their names should be published for all the world to hold it against them for the remainder of their lives. People say all sorts of madness that isn`t sincere. It`s entirely possible that none of the interlocutors were planning to act on anything that was said. (The context has as much influence as the statements. This case makes me think of the Mr. Big stings used to pry `confessions` from suspects: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/07/31/supreme_court_narrows_scope_of_evidence_allowed_from_police_stings.html). They may have all felt some sort of peer pressure to fit in with the other`so-called gentlemen. I`m not saying I`d do the same, but some people feel peer pressure like that and they say very stupid things to fit in with the crowd. How genuine it is is questionable, so I guess I`d like to err on the side of reasonable doubt. <br /><br />This story has garnered more public and media interest than some brutal gang rapes. Maybe the infamy they`ve garnered already is punishment enough for their lack of judgment when expressing themselves in what was supposedly a private conversation.<br /><br />In any case, keep up the good fight! I hope I don`t provoke your rage by disagreeing with your position!<br /><br />Cheers!<br />DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8642280015780930521.post-39627408518623865652015-01-07T10:51:18.096-03:302015-01-07T10:51:18.096-03:30An excellent post. Your close-reading of Wente'...An excellent post. Your close-reading of Wente's article is both spot-on (bravo!) and a very effective form of criticism.DHemminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16561396506212335644noreply@blogger.com